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ARTICLE V CONVENTION
11-10-2014, 09:53 AM
Post: #11
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
A generation that elected Barack Obama as the top CEO in the world and the Commander in Chief of the United States armed forces is no more qualified to amend the United States Constitution than Obama is ( and ever was) for either of those positions.

Many diverse groups are advocating for a Constitutional Convention, each imagining that it will be able to have its way with the United States Constitution.

While there was no mention of a Constitutional Convention in this dialogue with American Socialists, the fact that the United States Constitution can be amended is a theme that runs through the entire thread which is much longer and meaner ( the thread has mysteriously been white washed to give the appearance that it is no so mean as it actually is) than what I have posted here:




This is Mikkel Clair Nissen who is intrinsically compelling because he speaks forth rightly and without inhibition about what it is like to live under socialism. He speaks from his heart and expresses his own individual insights.

Following is a Facebook Discussion I had with American Socialists who refused to listen to Mikkel Clair Nissen's Video unless I presented a list of Danish people who were in agreement with Mr Nissen, displaying exactly the same character traits that Mr Nissen describes about the Danish people living in a collectivist society under socialism.


Carolyn Wesson "Common Good" are the words of the Founders... It was their intention to leave it up for interpretation so that the Constitution was "flexible" for a changing world and yet still much could be "checked" by the Supreme Court... HOW'S THAT HOLE??? (Here Ms Wesson is taking "Common Good' and interpreting it through the framework of socialism and inferring that the founders meant for their words to be interpreted via a socialist framework)


Mackenzie Andersen I understand that "Common Good" is interpretational that's my point. All I can say about that hole is that it needs to be interpreted in the context of the WHOLE of the founders thought in order to interpret the founders intent. to take it on its own is meaningless ,


Carolyn Wesson How about we also ask the question: If "social programs" are so bad for the "common good", then WHY do the democracies in Europe and other democratic republics still have them? Why is it that universal health-care exists? Why hasn't the majority of voters in the democracies across the world done away with it... Why is it that freely elected governments still promote "social programs" and when did it become that social programs are the same as a Socialist state? Do the countries of Europe have "private ownership" of property? Does capitalism exist within the same framework of gov't. as their "social programs"... Mackenzie... You are confused... It's is not one or the other... Social programs are developed for the common good the same as capitalism is promoted for the common good within an elected government by the majority of voters... What part do you not understand???


Mackenzie Andersen Carolyn listen to Mikkel Claie Nissen of Denmark- he will tell you why Europe still has them- being himself a product of that system- but he will NOT tell you that socialism is great ! He will tell you that the USA is the world's last great hope and speaks directly to Americans warning us not to STOP going down the socialist path.

Provided the YouTube link to Mr Nissen's page.



Carolyn Wesson AND, you think I need someone to "tell me" ... I need to put all of my confidence in an unknown? As if I don't have friends who live in Europe and have no other sources? As if, I only knew what you know then...? And, my own personal experiences count for nothing? Oh well...


Mackenzie Andersen Carol you asked the question why they exist in Europe but you don't want someone who actually lives under a system to "tell you the answer" ! Then why ask the question? You can write the answer yourself based on your own imagination.

What gets me is that when Obama was first running for office if any one dared to suggest that Obama is a socialist, that person would be labeled a far right extremist- but as soon as Obama was elected, even the New York Times was calling Obama a socialists and now people here are openly advocating that the last stand for the free world be transformed into socialism. Why aren't you extremists?


Harvey Ardman The problem is that the urge to act individually and the urge to act as a community are both essential parts of human nature. So long as we remain human, neither can triumph over the other, at least not for long. MacKenzie, it is interesting to see you quote a Dane about the shortcomings of his country and its political systems. Does he speak for the whole country? Do any Danes disagree with him? How does his opinion prove your point? You agreed, I believe, that we live in a world of factions--groups of people with different and often opposed philosophies and psychologies. It was always so, I believe, and it always will be so. Personally, I would root for any solutions that solve political and social problems, and I don't care about what word you or others might attach to them--socialism, Marxism, communism, fascism. Those are just intellectual swear words. I want to know what works, what produces the greatest good for the greatest number in the country and the world as it exists today. Those are the solutions I favor. I find ideologues--of any description--rigid and narrow thinking. But of all the ideologues, the worst are on the right, because they are motivated by fear. And fear is the first step toward violence.


Mackenzie Andersen Harvey- Your question is embedded in a collectivism. Can we listen to one individual if there is no evidence given about collective agreement?

Have you listened to Mikkel Claie Nissen. At one point he said it would be easy to get any of his fellow countrymen to commit suicide by saying The "Oh I can walk" when the light is red and pretending to walk across the street and they would all follow.-The point is that it is a collectivist society. How would I know how many agree with him? According to him most Danes would not go against collectivism to speak their own minds. What he hates about socialism is the collectivism- AND he gives you facts about the cost of living - so OK it is presented by the government that a Big Mac costs .53 cents. Nissen says it costs 6.00- at 21.00 an hour for Big Mac employees- who do you believe?

Why are the names of political systems swear words? Those words identify specific political systems. They are not swear words. They are descriptive words- although I know the left is always inventing a new label when the old label is revealed for what it actually is.The Communist strategy has long been to embed itself in the USA under a different name.

What I don't hear you saying is that you believe in the rule of law by a constitution representing the consent of the governed. You are like the fiscal conservatives who care only about fiscal success- it doesn't matter what political system is used to achieve it ! That's Maine's Governor Lepage.

Also there are many different measures of what works.Mikkel Claie Nissen is speaking about the psychological measure. He says Danes have never even reach the age of eight. Denmark is like a big day care center.


Harvey Ardman "What I don't hear you saying is that you believe in the rule of law by a constitution representing the consent of the governed." I happen to believe in that, Mackenzie. And in fact, I have a thousand other beliefs that I do not include in every post. One of them is that when looking at a nation of millions, it is lazy , if not downright wrong, to listen to one person's analysis without exposing yourself to many others. Mr. Nissen's opinion is interesting, but it reflects his philosophy and psychology. The notion that "Danes have never even reached the age of eight," is certainly an amusing way of saying that the country has solved many of the problems and overcome many of the hardships that people in other nations face, so that its citizens can concentrate on fulfilling pursuits, relationships and other things that make life satisfying. "Denmark is like a big day care center," he says. I recognize this point of view. It is the one which believes that pleasure and happiness cannot or at least should not be attained without struggle and misery. This notion underlies many of the moral teachings of religion. It assumes that life will always be hard and those who do not experience difficulties but find life enjoyable anyhow are somehow cheating. I wonder how this notion will survive in the future, when we mine the asteroids, get more energy than we could possibly use from the sun, and live in a society in which there is truly plenty for all. This has always been humanity's goal and it doesn't take much stretching to see that it is now in sight. What happens then to the Mikkel Claie Nissens of the world? Will there still be room for their judgmental disapproval?


Mackenzie Andersen Harvey- every point you made about Mikkel Claie Nissen's views are based in my third party report- and you did not say if you have listened yourself - How can you discredit an individual opinion and yet accept a third party description of an individual opinion as if you had your self listened?


Harvey Ardman
Mackenzie, you mean you have misreported what Nissen said? Have I misinterpreted what you said? Does't
matter much, because the rule holds: No single source is authoritative enough to be conclusively believed. (He doesn't answer my question, even though he took my description of Mr Nissen's views as a single source that can be conclusively believed)

Harvey Ardman Mackenzie, how would you express yourself if you were unable to use labels?

*****************************

The conversation continued but at this point it went missing from Facebook. I asked Mr Harvey to clarify what he meant by labels and so he gave a list of about every word one can use to signify Communism and Socialism- including "Collectivism" and "Marxism, words which he had previously described as swear words. I pointed out that his definiton of a"label" is ideologically based and asked why words like Christianity. Jewish, and American do not qualify as "labels".Mr Harvey responded by depicting me as "yearning for more labels" and at that point the entire conversation had become a serious of personal attacks by all posters against me- which I found a waste of time and so stopped posting.- except to remark upon the posts that had gone missing from the conversation.


The catch 22 in Harvey's argument is that no one in this dialogue would listen to Mr Nissen's view unless I presented a consensus of Danish people that showed they were in agreement with Mr Nissen- but if Danish people took the same stand of refusing to listen to Mr Nissen without first given the authority of a consensus- no one would ever listen to any individual opinion and therefor there would never be a basis for a consensus- One has to listen to another before one can form an opinion about another person's views.
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11-10-2014, 10:18 AM
Post: #12
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
While the people are more conservative than the pols they elect, they won't be the ones at any constitutional convention.

A constitutional convention is a very dangerous idea.

Besides we have a tyrant that is able to amend it all by his lonesome.

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11-10-2014, 10:32 AM
Post: #13
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
For the moment at least- the ones at a constitutional convention will be elected by the people ( the same electorate that granted power to the tyrant in the Oval office) - hopefully. Considering that in the corporation of Maine, the lives of the general public are actually being controlled by un-elected boards of hegemonic public-private relationships constructed out side of our state constitution by an outlaw legislature- I draw any conclusion about elected representation provisionally - And that was my point in my first sentence- this is the generation that elected a tyrant into the Oval Office- what arrogance to think we should now amend the United States Constitution!
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11-11-2014, 09:36 AM
Post: #14
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
We were not and will not yet be at the tipping point. If we were then the massacre would have been more complete and the spread more overwhelming. Yes, I would have had to hold my nose for a long time before reluctantly voting for Scott Brown and would have done so only for his vote for control of the senate and realizing his only reliable vote would have been for McConnell. But Jean Shaheen???!!! Come on. At least there are enough semi-republicans to marginalize Suzy, McInsane, and Grey Ham.

The tipping point may be coming. And guess who will be tagged for it. You got it. With the critical help of the MSM, the conservatives. Bonehead and McConnell couldn't explain what 2 plus 2 equals and even if they managed to come close, the MSM wouldn't report it.

We don't have anyone that comes close to the founding fathers' wisdom and their wisdom would never become known or used in any constitutional convention.

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12-20-2014, 12:43 PM (This post was last modified: 12-20-2014 12:43 PM by Roger Ek.)
Post: #15
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
(11-11-2014 09:36 AM)TANSTAF1 Wrote:  "We don't have anyone that comes close to the founding fathers' wisdom and their wisdom would never become known or used in any constitutional convention."

We have plenty of people who understand our God-given rights and our founding documents, but they are back in the trees in rural America.

The MSM would call them a bunch of kooks.
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03-10-2015, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2015 05:31 PM by Candice Casey.)
Post: #16
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
When the idea of a Constitutional Convention first reached my hearing, I thought, no way, I won't live to see this. In recent weeks I've come to the realization that it may well happen before the next Presidential Election. More and more each day I am seeing the necessity of such a landmark event.
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03-10-2015, 08:23 PM
Post: #17
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
People should be very careful what they wish for
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03-11-2015, 11:06 AM
Post: #18
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
Communists and Shariah Law advocates are very clever about concealing their true intentions. Many who will be at the convention will have been educated in our educational systems in which communism has been embedded far more deeply that knowledge about the American Political Philosophy. The Maine legislature which deemed the University of Maine to be a corporate instrumentality of the state in 1981, then awarded itself jurisdiction over educational matters in 1995 embedded Marxist and Socialists Studies as a minor since at least 2004 with federalist papers relegated to a far back seat and I doubt any education covering Maine Constitution which has been shredded by the Maine legislature.The generation that now thinks it is suited to change our constitution has allowed all of that to happen and in fact are the products of a Marxist education. The chances of the greatest constitution in world history surviving after they get their hands on it is at best minute. Shariah law probably has a better chance than the American political philosophy.
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03-11-2015, 09:05 PM
Post: #19
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
......"The generation that now thinks it is suited to change our constitution has allowed all of that to happen and in fact are the products of a Marxist education. The chances of the greatest constitution in world history surviving after they get their hands on it is at best minute. Shariah law probably has a better chance than the American political philosophy".......


I am with you on this 100%.

Here is some more info from people who feel like we do:

Mischief-Making about the Constitution

Attacks on the U.S. Constitution are coming from all sides. There are many pressure groups that just don’t like our U.S. Constitution, even though it is the longest lasting Constitution in history and has enabled us to prosper with 43 peaceful changes of government. Back in the 1970s, powerful and highly placed U.S. officials made a strenuous effort to change us into a parliamentary system of government. The global government-oriented Council on Foreign Relations has said that the provision it despises the most is the treaty clause, which requires the vote of two-thirds of Senators to ratify a treaty.

More recently, there have been several groups with intricate but conflicting plans to persuade us to hold a national convention in order to add major amendments to our Constitution. The New York Times opened its op-ed page to several liberal professors of government: one calls our Constitution “imbecilic,” another claims it contains “archaic” and “evil provisions,” and a third urges us to “rewrite the Second Amendment.”*


Phyllis Schlafly Columns on this topic


From the "Publius Huldah" Blog (This lady is a lawyer and one of the best authorities on the subject that I am familiar with):

......."Believe no one. You must check everything out for yourself. Our future hangs on your being able to tell the difference between Good and Evil. And on your caring about the difference"......

Publius Huldah blog

Bruce Libby, and a few others on AMG "mocked" this lady when I mentioned her blog, claiming she was not a real person and her opinions were not worth the paper printed on. I disagree!

This is way too touchy a subject to let the political class of today to get ahold of.

WC
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03-12-2015, 06:22 AM
Post: #20
RE: ARTICLE V CONVENTION
Ditto what Mac and WC said, be careful what you wish for
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