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Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal park takeover
01-12-2014, 04:09 PM
Post: #1
Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal park takeover
The Quimbys' latest out-of-state PR promotion threatens a "30 year knock-down, drag-out fight" to impose their agenda for a Federal park takeover of the Maine woods, this time in the New York Times in an article http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/a-n....html?_r=0 syndicated nationally http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20140..._give.html

The article repeats the mantra that the Quimbys "need the support of local residents in order to create a park, and so Mr. St. Clair has undertaken a grass-roots campaign to win their hearts and minds. His approach has been conciliatory, with residents sharing their ideas and concerns."

Susan Collins, quoted as "a Republican who has long opposed a park, said that Mr. St. Clair’s approach was a 'sea change' from his mother’s because he was listening to people. She still opposes a park for fear of harming the forest products industry but says she has 'not shut the door.'"

Angus King said he is "opposed and skeptical but listening."

Really? After 25 years of this obnoxious, belligerent nonsense what is left to "listen" to? Why should local people have to perpetually put up with this takeover threat constantly promoted by a band of radicals with a lot of money and political connections who behave worse than stalkers? But King can't decide whether "the benefits of economic development" would outweigh the costs of losing control over a resource [to the Federal government]", and so he only remains "skeptical".

Likewise for Rep and candidate for Governor Michaud who says he “wants an in-depth and complete consideration of the North Woods’ economic development options before he can say whether or not he supports the park.”

Evidently, viros dishonestly schmoozing people in the name of "listening" -- while openly continuing the same "knock down drag out fight" to overrun local people, property rights, locally accountable government and a private economy with a failed politically radical plan sprung from Washington DC over 25 years ago -- is expected to be acceptable in an age of unprincipled Pragmatism demanding in the name of a perpetual "open mind" that you constantly reconsider what you already know is wrong and destructive.

“Lucas has made real progress on the recreational issues,” Collins said, “but there’s still a long way to go on the economic issues and on the philosophical question of federal ownership of the land.”

The Quimbys' bait and switch maneuvers are not "real progress" in "recreation" or anything else -- and there is no "long way to go" on the rest: the viro misanthropic nihilist agenda for Federally imposed wilderness for the sake of wilderness is inherently the opposite of private property and a private, productive economy required for human life.

The kind of philosophical waffling we see in response to this is what allows this failed agenda to continue to torment its intended victims.

“It’s often a knock-down, drag-out fight to create a park, and sometimes it takes 30 years,” Lucas says, “but the outcome is always positive.”

On the contrary. National Park takeovers have been successfully stopped before. But even stopping them isn't "positive": People should not have to spend their lives fighting statist power grabs, and even when they succeed they have only at great cost kept some of what was already theirs --- their property and freedom -- while gaining nothing.
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01-12-2014, 05:50 PM
Post: #2
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal park takeover
Lucas has held some "stakeholder" meetings in the area.
They were invite only, and were made up of only businesses that might profit from a national park.

I wasn't invited, and actually was told I wasn't welcome when inquiring about them.Dodgy

Is it considered a conspiracy if they really are after you?Huh
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01-12-2014, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2014 07:27 PM by ewv.)
Post: #3
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight" to impose Federal takeover
"Stakeholders" is what it means when they say "St. Clair has undertaken a grass-roots campaign to win their hearts and minds. His approach has been conciliatory, with residents sharing their ideas and concerns."

It's a cynically dishonest political strategy that viros have employed for decades to try to co-opt their victims to show a phony "local support" for a preconceived agenda from any stooge and/or naive victim they can find to prop up as a front posing as the local people. It's a version of "community organizing" trying to manufacture the appearance of "popular demand" and is just as dishonest as a means for agitation.

Quimby did not just start this now. For all the propaganda about a "more conciliatory manner" and a change in the mask she wears to a "Listening-Lucas". She has been doing this for years. It is how the propaganda was strategically redesigned to dishonestly promote a Wilderness agenda in the name of "the local economy". People saw through the phony "conciliation" so Quimby had to swap masks and pretend this is all new and different. The "this time it's different" ploy has been used many, many times across the country. (That is what the "Greenline" promotion was sold as and you occasionally still see that long after Greenlining was exposed for what it is.)

Quimby and the viros have an over 25 year-old preconceived agenda for political power and will do anything to put it over. Nothing -- Nothing -- they do can be trusted, but good luck trying to explain that to "moderates" who are unprincipled on principle as they pursue and/or jump on "compromises" arranged to further an agenda, taking what they can get and coming back for more later in an unending agenda for progressively more and more power and controls. Pragmatist politicians in particular like to jump into this to show they appeal to "everybody but extremists". You are now supposed to be "conciliatory" and give Listening-Lucas something for his agenda in return. But you don't stop this abuse by going along with it a little at a time until it is too late to stop the political momentum, which is what they are after.

"Stakeholders meetings" were consciously developed as a formal, strategic method, carefully developed and honed by activists in the big pressure group lobbies, their funders, and government agencies. They were already operating in the 1980s (at least) when viros collaborating with NPS were trying to get around the Reagan administration with a show of phony "popular support" for NPS foot-in-the-door and power.

More fundamentally the notion of "stakeholders" is itself an invalid concept deliberately intended to replace the concept and principles of the rights of individuals, especially property rights, with the supremacy of political pressure group warfare to take what they can get in ends-justifies-the-means unprincipled on principle "conciliatory" "Pragmatism".
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01-12-2014, 07:37 PM
Post: #4
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal park takeover
There are many here that are in no way in favor of more federal control of anything in this area.
Messages saying we will become a part of the dialogue if the national park proposal is taken off the table have been sent and none acknowledged by Quimby and Co.
That tells me that they are still on track to try to force this down our throats with or without local support.
Many of the local tourism related businesses would be more than happy to throw the entire wood products industry under the bus if it meant they might be able to offer a few more minimum wage, tacky trinket job oportunities.

Is it considered a conspiracy if they really are after you?Huh
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01-12-2014, 08:15 PM
Post: #5
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal ...
(01-12-2014 07:37 PM)Ugene Wrote:  There are many here that are in no way in favor of more federal control of anything in this area.
Messages saying we will become a part of the dialogue if the national park proposal is taken off the table have been sent and none acknowledged by Quimby and Co.
That tells me that they are still on track to try to force this down our throats with or without local support.
Many of the local tourism related businesses would be more than happy to throw the entire wood products industry under the bus if it meant they might be able to offer a few more minimum wage, tacky trinket job oportunities.

I guarantee that there are some people, in this part of Maine, who will fight this, any way they have too, enough is enough. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe, and these idiots are pushing us to the wall. You corner a rat.....and he will stand up and fight, eventually.

WC
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01-12-2014, 08:48 PM
Post: #6
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal park takeover
Government can't afford to take care of the parks that exist now and they want more?
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01-13-2014, 12:57 AM (This post was last modified: 01-13-2014 01:46 AM by ewv.)
Post: #7
Re: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal takeover
(01-12-2014 08:48 PM)FrankLee Wrote:  Government can't afford to take care of the parks that exist now and they want more?

Yes they lust for more. They aren't interested in "taking care" of anything. They want monopoly control over millions of acres to be decreed as Federal Wilderness, with no one taking care of it, which is what they mean by "protected".

The National Park Service is billions of dollars in arrears for maintenance and rehabilitation of what it already has but its lobby has been pushing for a new off-budget entitlement for government acquisition of private property at a rate of over a billion dollars every year, bypassing the usual (or what was usual when they started) Congressional annual appropriations process.

The 1988 National Park System Plan from Washington DC (which is where this agenda came from) called for acquisition of over a hundred million acres across the country, with about ten million acres in Maine, precisely to eliminate the wood products industry and all other signs of civilization.

Quimby and Restore are misanthropic retrogrades who want to literally restore the land to pre-settlement conditions, wiping out private property rights in principle. Their idea of "taking care" of land is to eliminate human activity other than a small amount of primitivist hiking on foot paths to areas most people could never get to at all.

(01-12-2014 08:15 PM)woodcanoe Wrote:  I guarantee that there are some people, in this part of Maine, who will fight this, any way they have too, enough is enough. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe, and these idiots are pushing us to the wall. You corner a rat.....and he will stand up and fight, eventually.

The rats have been trying to shove this down our throats for over 25 years. It's the people who have fought back. It's the rats who scurry back into the woodwork when the light shines on them, which is why it is so important to keep exposing these stalkers for what they are instead of sanctioning them as some kind of idealists with a legitimate cause that should perpetually be "listened to".

(01-12-2014 07:37 PM)Ugene Wrote:  There are many here that are in no way in favor of more federal control of anything in this area.

Messages saying we will become a part of the dialogue if the national park proposal is taken off the table have been sent and none acknowledged by Quimby and Co.

That tells me that they are still on track to try to force this down our throats with or without local support.

They don't deserve "dialogue" no matter what they do to change the appearance of their goals. We already know what they are after and why because they have said so for decades. Any seeming change in their preferred agency would be of no more fundamental significance than a change in the color of the uniforms and adjustments to the timing of the guillotine.

But you are right that they are trying to force it down our throats any way they can and that they have not relented on using the National Park Service to do it.

The Quimby Dec. 2012 announcement -- "The family would still like to see a national park in northern Maine, but has withdrawn its proposal submitted to the National Park Service and is pursuing other options; that proposal is not on the table any more” -- was a lie.

They knew it was a lie then and they have confirmed it to the New York Times, which just revealed, "they insist, the land that they want for a national park must be designated a park, not a national forest or monument", and "Lucas the Conciliatory Listener" drilled it in with his threat: "It’s often a knock-down, drag-out fight to create a park, and sometimes it takes 30 years.”

Restore knew it, too, cynically revealing it after Interior Secretary Salazar announced in March 2012 that he would not pursue the politically rigged "study" which Quimby, NPS and the viros had promoted and demanded (as if we need government studies to tell us what to think at all). Still denying the opposition to the agenda and claiming that viro phony "quantitative" push-polling proved an excuse for a Federal takeover, Restore's Jym St. Pierre said in the usual cynical terms of political double talk and appeals to weaseling 'plausible deniability':

"It is important to be clear about this. According to the Bangor Daily News, Sec. Salazar said, 'We have no plans to move forward on a reconnaissance study on the proposal from Ms. Quimby on the national park.' His words were carefully chosen. First, he said there are no plans, which does not rule out a study in the future. Second, he limited his remarks to Ms. Quimby's proposal, which is different than the Maine Woods National Park & Preserve vision that has been put forth by RESTORE: The North Woods. And third, Sen. Collins' comment that 'the harder [proponents] have pushed, the stronger the resistance has become' is relative and anecdotal. It says nothing about the actual support for the national park idea. Every statistically legitimate poll I have seen shows a majority of Mainers surveyed are supportive of the park idea. It is important to separate political spin from quantifiable fact."

The only "quantifiable fact" in this is the enormous money they have at their disposal to relentlessly pursue their political connections and PR stunts, which they live off full time as vulture lobbyists, while ordinary people are forced to fend them off while trying to live normal lives disrupted by the stalkers.
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01-13-2014, 10:04 AM
Post: #8
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal ...
ewv, I am glad to see you are here on The Maine Citizen.
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01-13-2014, 12:50 PM
Post: #9
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal park takeover
EWV

Ditto !

Is it considered a conspiracy if they really are after you?Huh
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01-13-2014, 01:59 PM
Post: #10
RE: Quimby/StClair threaten "knock-down, drag-out fight " to impose Federal ...
(01-13-2014 12:50 PM)Ugene Wrote:  EWV

Ditto !

I'll make that a triple!

ewv, thank you.
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